Imke Gaus: Empathy and Excellence - Crafting a Collaborative Tech Culture

Disclaimer:This transcription of the podcast is AI-generated and may contain errors or inaccuracies.

Leszek

My name's Leszek, and I will be talking with Imke Gaus about diversity, innovation, and women in tech. I'd like to start with your career path. Could you walk us through your career path and the key moments that led you to your current role head of software engineering competence center at?

Imke Gaus

Mhmm. Mhmm. Yes. So, first of all, thanks for having me. Yeah. So what brought me where I'm today? I asked the question.

And looking back, with all that I've done, I think there are, like, 2 key figures who made me do what I'll do now and in the way that I do it. Yeah? So it even starts before I ended the workforce. I studied at the university to about to do my masters. And my supervisor was professor Professor Reimas from Institute of Communications Technology where I did my Master's. And he was so such a humble, like, personal and also very specific and detailed entree when it comes to technology. And this combination really made me turn into, technology for my career Gaus beforehand I if you, like, was wondering if I should do technology or I should do big documentary film also in the in the wake of communications technology.

And, but he really encouraged me to stay in. And, then after I graduated, I joined Volkswagen Group. So I actually started a little spin off called Carmack that nowadays don't exist anymore, where I started as a developer for interaction concepts. What does that mean? It's actually so when you look at the car and it's also like more than a decade back, yeah, so quite a long Imke, it was actually the interface between the user and the car. So Imke speech interaction, navigation systems, infotainment, all kind of things Imke how you would experience the car. Yeah. And, I was lucky enough to be in a team who was such a high spirited team, that had so much creativity in it. Yeah. That this really also I think laid the ground for my still ongoing technology heart that I have for technology.

So yes, so that that's how I I came to software. And then I held several roles.

I'm still with Volkswagen Group. So I moved to the cars of Volkswagen brands in the life cycle and took care of that from technical project management perspective, which was very different because it's not only electronics or software. But this is where I actually met the second person that made me, turn into into what I'm now. That was my old line manager there and my team manager. He was such a well spirited person. Yeah. And he's always Imke, we're gonna solve that.

Smile, invite, communicate. Yes, yes, problem is there. But we're going to do it. ' Without being, like, toxically positive Gaus that's also something I can't stand. But he had really this can do attitude and that really sharpened me in the way that I approach topics and still do. I was just yesterday talking to to someone and I said that's that is what I think I can say for myself. There is no problem unsolvable. Yeah. Because we're all humans and all the problems here are usually human made. Yeah. So, that is something that that is still touching me.

And also is is one of the things that I try to do as a tech leader. Yeah. Calm down. Breathe. Yeah.

Leszek

Can do attitude. I love it.

Imke Gaus

You're gonna solve it. Yeah. And, yeah, from from the car then I went back to back in the Gaus, Group IT or Volkswagen Group where we started the digitalization, from sales IT. And that's where I joined back actively because I still wanted to be more back in software and where we did the first things.

And, yes, actually, what I do now is kind of the successor of what we started there. So currently I'm heading a competence center for software engineering here in Carriett, which is Volkswagen Group's software, subsidiary to say so. And, it's in the field of, interior interface and digital experience, which is actually back to where it started, what the customer will perceive. Yeah. And I'm very happy to lead a very I personally find a very fantastic team of human beings, who all are more or less writing code. Yeah. So, and they're very educated, very nice people and, yes, that's where I am today.

And for Imke, this what I love most about my shop is that I really have this combination of technology and all these technical discussions, from new software development, which we all love the most because it's greenfield. But there's also operations, there's so much more, like, processes that you would have to think about. And also to form a culture where the work for the people is something that they enjoy even under high pressure. Yeah. That that's my way to go, I guess.

Leszek

Mhmm. Cool. Is there anything that is specific about being about building engineering competence within the automotive industry?

Imke Gaus

Yes. Yes. I think there's 2 aspects when when it comes to that. For me, the first one would be that we have where the car company comes from a very, Imke, what is it called, mechanical engineering, mindset. Yeah. Going into pieces. Like, in general, that's not specific to to where I'm working at.

And, where first when software and electronics started in the late eighties and then going forward from there, where software was both not done in house. Yeah. So the first thing about doing that nowadays is that it's worldwide a phenomenon that has not traditionally been within an OEM. Yeah. Which is a new set of how to approach problems. Because if you want to have a running system 247 Gaus people actually use cars or mobility 247, it's something different than something that is produced at one point. Yeah. I also find it very interesting from an engineering perspective Gaus when I talk to a lot of people that I meet, they might work in a company where they actually sell the software as the piece of product. Yeah? So you ship it and it there, it either runs mainly on a mobile phone or it's something, some software piece that someone uses as an enterprise or whatever.

But when we come to to car, or OEMs, we have this actual very, hopefully, nice and fine doing thing of metal and a lot of things on the street, which is driving around internationally everywhere. Like literally everywhere. And then we have software that needs to work with that. In the car, over the air and maybe even on Imke third devices Imke, mobile app or something. Yeah. Where they use it nowadays when it comes to electric Gaus, also Imke do things for their cars, and enjoy services.

So I think that makes it very Imke. And that is also something that I see for a lot of people is the catching point, Jitel, Because, I have some people or I see people that maybe worked at an app and then the start up is just gone. And if you work with a car, your work will go around the globe for a lot of years. And even if you work here in Germany, your family in some other country can also enjoy what you do actually once it's shipped and deployed, like, published, everything. Yeah. And I think that is something that you don't experience in such, prominent and visible and actually physically experiencing, your product in a way. Yeah. That is something I find very special.

And I think that's also very special and it's something that I, as a leader, also have to bring to people Gaus that's actually the difference. When we look at the fight for talents, we don't have enough talent. This is a part that we have a lot of times. And, like, one of my jobs is, like, what what makes us different? And I think this is this is the difference.

It is real.

Leszek

How does this background, this legacy of building mechanical things, real objects that operate in space for years, how does it, you know, in influence the way you guys look at software?

Imke Gaus

Well, thank you for that question. So there's multiple perspectives on that. First of all, it's important, like, where and what kind of functionality we are looking at or what kind of service for the customer. Because there is, like, legislation and rules that you, for security and data privacy reasons, where in Europe, for example, have to do. Yeah, which by law requires certain things. What I usually am looking for when it comes to customer services, for example, or where I'm what my perspective on my team is. We do a lot of things that are more front end orientated. Yeah? We can still use all technologies.

You it's easy to change things. Yeah? You still have to, and that is very important, put security in there. But you also and that is also part of security, you have to make the user like it So they don't, no one starts building around that or or misuse. Yeah. I think they're very different approaches. Also when it comes to high availability, I think it that is something that for all services that are in there, product as well as Imke services that might be away from there.

It is always an important part, obviously, because mobility is something that you enjoy 247.

Leszek

Yeah. Now, I'd like to, you know, dig into the impact of KaryagWorks on the automotive industry. And my specific question here is, how does KaryagWorks contribute to making this the industry, the automotive mobility safer, more sustainable, more comfortable? Can you provide, like, specific example of of projects or innovations your team is working on? Some of them may be top secret, of course, but you can you give us some, you know, insight into the the the things that you are working with your team?

Imke Gaus

Yes. Yes. So, Carried, for those who might not know, actually, Carried is, Volkswagen Group's software subsidiary. We have around 6 where there are around 6,500, engineers, employees, that work on the customer products. And one of the main goals is to be to work on, like, a unified stack where there are currently multiple platforms. Yeah. This is, like, one of the things where you would have a lot of artificiality.

Leszek

Speaking of, you know, the customer, I'd like to ask about feedback gathering practices. Or, basically, how do you guys at Carryout incorporate customer feedback into its software development site, particularly for the features and the, you know, Volkswagen ID family and upcoming, you know, Audi, Porsche models? It's it's super interesting to know how you work with, the user, with the customer.

Imke Gaus

As you know, I I'm coming from interaction concept development. Yeah. So what you actually do is talking to the customer. Yeah. I've personally done that in the Gaus. And that is something where I think it's very important that you have a great product team with design and UX competence to actually get these needs, when it comes to the very nitty gritty details, yeah, of of how you do things. And, apart from this, like, nitty gritty detail that we also do, plus we have some lovely colleagues here, who do that in my team. No? Then, obviously, the brand or or car brands, because it's a very high invest, field for all OEMs, you would do proper research over their research department.

Like, what is the next thing, or what do they want, and how do they place, or how do they place themselves in the market. Yeah. Which is, because the car is not only the software. Though we are talking maybe about this from the tech perspective, now Imke, but, for such a physical product, there's a lot more involved that is, not in the field of software. Yeah. Because it's a product where a lot of emotions are in for the customer until that person makes a decision. Yeah. So, I can only come from my small perspective and that's the point that a car is a very very complex product.

And by that I don't mean only the production, but actually it has very different aspects to it. Also of customer needs, yeah?

From do I need big cars, smaller cars? How many people do you want to sit in there?

Does the most important person yep. This is this is, the front or back or Imke, what what does a certain country require of you? Yeah. So I think this is something that is genuinely interesting when we look about such a complex product as a car. You know, so yes, we use a research and actually talking to people using that. I'm also hearing that eating your own dog food is something that I can encourage everyone to do. Yeah? Down to the level of divorce. Yeah? Because then you experience what you do. Yeah? And, yesterday, yesterday I heard a very interesting talk from a colleague of some other company which is very far away from cars.

And, he said, like, there's this innovation budget that you would put in each, cycle or sprint cycle. And, you don't wanna stretch overstretch that Gaus if you overstretch that, you would be also kindly asked to be on call, yeah, at night. And that is something I can resonate to also. Yeah.

Leszek

Absolutely. Absolutely. There are multiple strategies to to there are trade offs strategic traders, how to handle that, where's the where where does the red line, actually exist. I'd like to talk a little bit about the future and how what's your vision for, you know, next generation of digital ecosystems, our services and vehicle vehicles. We talked about, over the air updates. That's already here. What what's coming up next?

Imke Gaus

So I think the big discussion also in society everywhere, and that is something that is just very I think a fantastic is obviously autonomous, like or assisted driving, all kinds of varieties between I have a car and there's automated driving. I think that is just the discussion that everyone has an opinion about. Yeah? Even in the industry, out of the industry, a lot of people don't even realizing how much they might even experience nowadays in the cars already. If you once drive a car without a zero drive anymore, which is completely useful, people are looking like that. Because it's and that is like not even like an assistive system in this in this kind of way. Yeah, but we are so much used to that. So I think that is actually the one of the next big things, yeah, that we are that everyone is looking for.

For me personally, it's also a discussion of privacy. I personally find this very interesting Gaus when we look at many more people in, in a high density populated area. Yeah. Smaller apartments, a lot of work. I find it personally very interesting that also for me, I love sitting in my car and being on my own. I mean, I'm a car person, I love cars and I love driving Gaus. But there's a privacy aspect to it, yeah? For me personally, as someone who drives a car, that my connections are all well set there, that all my information that I use is available in private life.

I'm not means for for driving. But all these kind of things, because that is the simple room where no one distorts. And I think when we look at multi generational homes, shortage of apartments and all these kind maybe that's just my very personal thing, but entertainment for your own, that's a safe space, is something that the car is also for me on a personal level. Yeah. So I expect there's a lot more happening when it comes to gamifications, things that you would see to have this more also obviously combined with autonomous driving or assisted driving, a lot of more of this daily information or private t shirts of things coming up in the car. I think that's one of the next big things. Okay. Though maybe for different reasons.

So me personally, just as a safe space, but also autonomous driving, more free time. So yes. Sure.

Leszek

Okay. I'd like to change the gears a bit and talk about building teams, leading teams. I'd like to start off here with the question.

Imke Gaus

My first job was to actually start in house software development sometimes back, which is still like my team though now a different different people in there at this point. And as outlined earlier, the software development itself was not traditionally maybe something that you would do in the in the industry that I'm in. Yeah? And it starts with the very first thing. How do you hire software developers on a first one and then scale that if you don't have a good or a big set of peers that can help support the hiring or recruiting process. Yeah? So that's like the very basic thing to start off Gaus it doesn't magically happen that everyone just creates, I don't know, a technical thing at one day and the next thing they start coding deep level. Like, Yeah.

Not not happening. I mean, there is reeducation and, like, upskilling, whatever. But, this is Imke the first thing. You need to find people to support that. Those people, I mean so I wouldn't see myself as a person doing that anymore on such a big scale. Though I actually, in the beginning, interviewed every single person that we hired personally. Yeah. Like, how do you do that?

So you find your colleagues and and people who build this process with you together and actually may turn it into something that we also see in other tech companies. Like, you have challenges that the candidate might look at.

You interview them. You work with them on an actual challenge to see how they do and approach problems. Yeah? Because I think that the most part that they fit in the team and they can approach problems and actually solve them. Yeah. Even if it's, like, not their their preferred stack or something. Yeah. But it's about the attitude also a lot and skill set in general, the technical understanding.

So this is actually the first challenge, I think, that that, I personally ran into. And this building of this process, scaling that, is something very different from when you look on how, people who are more in a technical steering role might be hired traditionally on the history, yeah, of of a mechanical industry. Yeah. Brandon, I think what is also important is that with this in house software development, you also at the same time have a lot of very, very, very engaged people that want to build products because ideas is something that most people are not short of. Yeah. And thankfully, I've never experienced that to work with people who don't have ideas. So there's always, great people, all over the industry and and also other people that I'm talking to.

So I think that that's not the problem. And then you have to find a way once these people are there, actually, physically they exist, how do you make that work? Because traditionally in OEMs, the software would outsource. Yeah? So you would have someone that works with maybe get, I don't know how it's even called in English, 'Lastenheft'. That's how Imke German mechanical industries at least work. Like, you give out a requirements book, yeah, to say so.

Leszek

And outsource?

Imke Gaus

Yes. And then you would yeah, outsource. And then, you would have your team, but not only engineers but also people who bring in product ideas. So actually setting up this whole working model. Yeah? Because it's not just the engineers that sit there and manage. She says, oh, that's what we need.

And starts coding. Yeah. Because fun. I mean, that also happens, thankfully. Yeah. And I'm actually very much the person Gaus a tech leader that really my heart is going for learning and innovation, I have to say. So that is maybe another field we can talk about.

It's really something that I invest a lot of time and energy in. But that is this establishing of a working model of inner software development and bringing these ideas that we have, into an operationable, maintainable working product. That was, I think, a steep learning curve for everyone involved. But it actually I think it it's been going very well. So yes.

Leszek

Thank you for that. I have just one follow-up question to the first one, which is, Gaus your way of recruitment of recruiting, and I was not saying, like, yourself personally, but, like, the organization or the power organization that you are running, has the way you recruits changed since the remote work sort of, ate the world. And, there are many tactics to do. Some some some some organizations, including one of the biggest, stayed on the path that recruitment is one of the things, one of those critical interaction between the organization and individual that it has to be happen actually in the physical space, not remote. And I'm wondering what's your approach here.

Imke Gaus

That's actually very interesting focusing on hiring. So generally speaking, I would say remote work is fine for most situations. I can also openly advocate that I encourage to also meet people. As you said, there are things that work better, in my opinion, that if you're on-site, yeah? Let that be meeting new people, yeah, or having thorough technical discussions. Like, if you can just take a pen and draw some architecture on the whiteboard. I mean, any online tool such as Miro is also nice, but I actually feel that also these little talks that you have on the side help a lot to meet people and to find solutions. Yeah? But there's also tasks that are very well done remotely.

Very well done. But I also know that people don't come to the office just because you say now come. Yeah? I think there need to be a cause such as hiring or onboarding of new team members which I think if you enter a new culture which is actually if you enter a new company you also enter a new culture. Yeah? And this is best experience if you actually meet on-site. Yeah? That that is my feeling.

I don't have data Gaus, that that is a feeling that I have as a manager, yeah, our tech leader. I saw there some number for Matter where they actually, somehow, got data on that, which showed actually that onboarding of new engineers works a lot easier if they're in the office at least every now and then, which supports my gut feeling about that. Yeah? And also the feedback that if you talk to people, how they feel, when they when they come in, I think it's it's very important to meet them and greet them. And maybe even show them around, you know, the little things that makes you emotionally attached to a company Gaus that is one of the main things why people stay there. And for me, people who are in an industry or in a domain are usually most valuable or are very valuable to a team. Not only made up of that because they only have to be fresh thoughts and bring in some uniours.

But, this domain knowledge and industry knowledge is so very important And people grow that because they have the history, they have experienced things and operations. And if they don't have any emotions or these Imke good situations that they experience and they can also remember, yeah, I think then the the turnover rate would be a lot higher, yeah? And that is just back for a scrum team, because an experienced scrum team or product team works the most efficient usually. And they can predict their stuff. And if you have a lot of changes that is not common common knowledge of agile development. Yeah. That you try to keep that together.

And especially when it comes to complex solutions Imke we are dealing with in our industry. Yeah. And also here with with the car, actually on the side and software somewhere. And, I truly remember the first time when I entered back in 2008. Just after a few weeks, I had a factory tour in Wolfsburg, where there are Wolfsburg headquarters. And you can do this factory tour. And there is this metal press that goes into the ground. And if you stand on factory grounds, on the right positions or in the city, you can feel this fist bump.

Gaus it's such a force. And I still have to see why you see that Gaus it's such a fundamental, like physical experience that just makes me emotionally attached. Yeah. Not because you do that every Imke, because we work on software and Einberg is based in Berlin. But, I think really that these meetings and things that you do with your team members or with your- with the company and the people that you're with actually change the way you're attached. Also then when it comes to new ideas that you might bring in. Yeah. Because you have tasks that are coming from somewhere and then there's old ideas.

And the more understanding you have and you think, great, I want to be here for a longer time. I feel that people would bring in more ideas than others.

Leszek

Very interesting, very interesting. There's something in generally experiencing the physical world where you work the software on databases. I speak with all of engineers, and I get a sense that, like, it's really nice to escape to, even the, you know, company environment to do something that is, like, related to physical object, whether it's, you know, even painting the office or, like, I don't know, building LEGO sets. This is something that we do. We don't paint the office, but we do be build, LEGO sets. It's it's really you know? Some of us also, you know, over the weekends do some, you know, build, you know, some, some do some woodwork, things of that sort, just to I but there's there's something in it.

I I don't know what, but, I find it intriguing. I've got a more personal question for you, which is, what has been your experience as a woman in the automotive industry, which is originally maybe still dominated by men, and what's your advice, to women aspiring to leadership roles in this field?

Imke Gaus

Yes. Yes. So actually there are not a lot of women in in leadership roles in the mobility industry, but we are growing. And, traditionally, it's been, male dominated field. Yeah. There are some prime examples also where I'm working at, with board members, Imke, I had to get in or something, which I find very important, that we have these and these great women there.

I also try to be an example for people and a role model. So what I experienced is that over the last almost 2 decades that I'm now doing this, the industry has also changed a lot. So when I entered the workforce or my job, I started my first job, maybe the comments that I got about the recouponician is very different from what I see nowadays.

We have a lot of women coming up in single teams, yeah. And we also know, and that is not bound to Harriet or to my role or anything, that diverse teams make usually more innovative products, and also more successful products. And that is something, it's not only bound to gender but also to other diversity that you could see, that it's so very important. And the harsh environment, because it's coming from mechanical engineering, is something that usually is not attractive to a lot of women.

That is also when we look at statistics. Why a lot of women turn away from technical roles in the technical field after a few years. So what we see, I think it's like roughly a third of women leaving technical roles within the first one or two years after they started the technical role in the interim. The next 3rd of the year, women is lost over the next course of 10 years.

And there's around a third of the Imke, like, thriving. Exactly. They are then thriving. Yeah. And, the question is what makes these women then so successful and why they are there? A lot of women drop out because they face a hostile environment, generally, when we look look at surveys on this kind of stuff. Yeah? And, it's important that women do find their networks that they work with and that they advocate for themselves, to bring their career forward. Yeah? Most women want to have a good career.

They they do great in their masters, in their bachelor's, in their education. Yeah? They come actually very, very well prepared. Yeah? And then they somehow face something that makes them completely turn away. And, for me personally, it's something that I also had to learn. So first of all I was more like going with my peers and that's usually where you start building Imke your your workship friendships, kind of, that stuff.

But then you realize if you want to do that, you also want to be in contact with leadership Gaus they actually have the decision power to promote you or to give you a new job. Yeah? So that is something that, I was missing as in the beginning before I started my work. Yeah? Especially also contact other women that might can give you a job. Because there is unfortunately the tendency that people hire people that are more closer to themselves from, experience and the way of doing things, yeah? And this has been done in the in the other way around to say so.

That, like, there in Germany, there's the expression Imke, Thomas Circle, which is Imke from a same guys promoting same guys. Yeah. And I think that is why it's very important that you build your own network and that you get visibility. Take on risks Gaus there is no career thing without risks. So personally, what I Imke to do is that I, first of all, am a member of a network that we have at work, which is called Women at Carryout, where I'm a core team member of. So actually helping networking the people, bringing people that are very interesting to talk to.

I do that with a fantastic group of women, obviously, not me on my own. So there are very strong people in there, too. And, that is one of the main things. Or I'm joining in with in the women's CTO dinner, which is an organization where women in very leadership roles, in tech leadership roles, are organized in. Yeah. So doing exactly that helps me personally also to exchange, the impressions or problems that I have. Yeah. That is something I can truly advocate for.

Also, when it comes to inspiring or engaging other diverse candidates, maybe. So the other day I was talking at Berlin 42, which is, one part of, this schooling system to actually or about this point of Imke in tech rules. Gaus those women who are just learning to coach and can do that just as well as everyone else in this group, yep, they should not be scared off and they should have some knowledge on how to approach that Gaus they will always, all of them, will at some point, most likely, face some harsh environment. Yeah. Maybe, maybe you also have seen that.

Like when you go on, I don't know, Reddit or Stack Overflow. Stack Overflow might be more eligible for people with code. The tone of how people are talking Imke in these, like, forums on the Internet is something that's very harsh. Not giving. Yeah. And it's a very it's maybe something how how a lot of people in in shoe would talk to each other. Yeah. And that is also really where we don't see a lot of women being in there. Yeah. Yes. So for Imke, that's really something where I'm heartfelt when I see things not going in the right direction, and I actively try to work against that. Yeah.

Leszek

Also I'm sorry, Byron, that, it's not just, like, talking, but you also actively advocate and work on actually putting it the matters on the right trajectory. Very inspiring.

Imke Gaus

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Look at things like a job advertisement. Yeah? And that is something where you can start with a very small detail that I did. For example, when I have a job advertisement, I'm looking over that with the key thing that we know of: how to attract diverse candidates.

And that's not putting in Imke, Imke, MFD in Germany, you would put Imke the gender behind it, like female and male diverse, which doesn't attract any diverse candidate at all anymore. Yeah. There's there's even research for that. But we know that, for example, women candidates, come in if they meet maybe, like, 70% of the stakes that are asked for.

Leszek

Okay. So there's a different matching, sort of mechanism that, it's sort of gender related.

Imke Gaus

Yes. And that is what, like like, tech leaders, like me, we have to look out for. There are these small things that you can do. Like, limit the stupid number of points in your advertisement. Don't create that fantastic figure that should exist somewhere. Yeah? Because we know that on the other hand, male candidates, they they start applying with 30%. Yeah. 30%. Yeah? So this is something, all these little details that I I try to take care of, yeah, and that you out for.

So you don't or you you at least attract a different, set of candidates in the end.

Leszek

Yeah. Very interesting. Yes. Actually, really. My final question for you is, what is your leadership philosophy? If you could sort of unpack, how do you think about leadership in general?

Imke Gaus

Yeah. How do I think about leadership? This is first of all things I think that are important for Imke. Yeah, that is the one site where it's based off Imke, what is important for me when it comes to ethics, for example. Yeah. And then also, how do I experience leadership?

Because although I'm a tech leader, I also experience leadership. Yeah? So for me generally speaking, I am a person I would describe my style as being a very empathetic leader.

That is also a feedback that I get. So it's not just something that I claim I have. Very empathetic leader, but I'm also requesting very high quality.

I'm not happy if if they're not very nicely done. So, but that doing that without being harsh and I think on adrenal scale that is something that I'm looking for. I want very nice products because I just love working products, Yeah. For me it's important, and this has worked out yet, that when I work with a team that I can, without any preparation, say something good about every single team member. Yeah, and that doesn't mean that everything is always nice Gaus there is tough times, not tough times. This happens. But for Imke, it's fundamentally important that I know good of people.

And this has worked out very well for me. So if that would not be the case, I think we have a serious problem. Thankfully, it has never ever yet been that way. Yeah? So I can always have that. And I personally have a very positive spirit with me. I always think that things can be solved and done. Yeah? And this I also try to bring to my team members. Yeah. We can do that.

And if there's a problem, as I said, to turn it into a great product, Imke, something is not very nice, like how can we make it nicer? Yeah? How can we achieve that?

I'm very happy to help. Yeah? And I never get, like, what I hear from other people, like people getting mad or something. Yeah. It's really something Imke how can we approach this can do attitude that I experienced with my with my line manager back in the days and something that I can also experience as being myself. Yeah, how do I perceive leadership? It's something like give room, bring maybe a way of solution so that personal can actually step on the path of solution, yeah, and not go in circles around the problem. Yeah? Because we also have to take into account all the people I deal with usually in my professional life are very well educated people, very smart and, Imke, interested people.

And, you don't wanna do, like, micromanaging and say this is the way and then you do this and that that that that that Yeah. So you wanna, like, lead maybe into a direction depending on the situation. Like, maybe look into this, look into here, yeah, and then come back and, Gaus micromanagement, I think it's really something that most engineers are

Leszek

allergic to that. Yeah.

Imke Gaus

Yeah. So this is the balance you have to feel. But I think it's also very important that you actually are interested and truly interested in the people that you're working with. Yeah? Something that I experienced very well in my in my personal me being somewhere, yeah, with my line manager, being empathetic even if you have a really horrific situation maybe to face. Yeah? And knowing that there is a system to fall onto and the person that will back you, I think this is something that I experience as something that always makes me emotional, yeah?

It's so important because it gives so much of life peace to you, yeah? And that doesn't mean that you might not even be on the same side at some point. This is normal, Yeah? But having this backing is such a fundamental piece for me that I will not want to miss, either for me personally nor for team members. Yeah? So that is really, like, my my guidance for that. Yeah.

Leszek

Very well said. Great insights, Imke.

Thank you very much. That was a pleasure. Better Tech Leadership powered by Brainhub. Follow Les Schick on LinkedIn and subscribe to the Better Tech Leadership newsletter.

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